The FemTech India Podcast

SEASON 2/Ep : 36 Can Women’s Health Be the Next Big Thing Like Skin care and Makeup.

• Navneet Kaur

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Can technology and policy innovations truly transform women's health in India, Tune in to find out ! 

Join us as we sit down with Swarnima, the co-founder of Gytree, an innovative platform dedicated to women’s health. Swarnima brings a wealth of experience, having previously worked with the UN and WHO, and being recognized as an AstraZeneca Young Health Scholar. She has contributed extensively to the conversation on women’s health through publications on the World Economic Forum’s Agenda, Live Mint, Times of India, and more.

Growing up in rural Uttar Pradesh, Swarnima witnessed firsthand the challenges women face due to a lack of basic amenities and public visibility. Hear how her education in Delhi and her father’s work travels ignited her passion to revolutionize women’s health infrastructure.

In this episode we discuss consumer behavior patterns and the cultural barriers that shape women’s health decisions in India. Swarnima sheds light on how understanding these behaviors can lead to more effective health solutions. We also delve into the influence of sectors like transportation and e-commerce in informing health strategies, and the critical role of personalized care. From the dependency on partners for health decisions to the systemic gender biases in medical testing, we uncover the complex landscape that women navigate to access healthcare.

Finally, we tackle the challenges of balancing work life especially for female founders. Hear Swarnima's insights on the evolving corporate mentality towards employee wellness and the importance of integrating healthcare into workplace culture. She also shares personal anecdotes on mental health, leadership, and the long-term journey of building a business. 

This episode is packed with invaluable insights for anyone interested in the intersection of technology, policy, and women’s health in India. 

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DISCLAIMER: The content presented in this podcast is not intended to serve as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It's always advisable to consult with your doctor or qualified healthcare provider for personalized guidance. 

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Speaker 1:

Born and brought up in Lucknow, which is in Uttar Pradesh. I got to see a lot of places in the hinterlands of Uttar Pradesh, Small places, you know, sometimes where there were no washrooms, sometimes where there were no roads. The women were not even coming out of their houses while you know the meal was being served to us.

Speaker 2:

Finally, I also feel like this Femtech category has finally given voice to women. So busy building for women's health, but we often don't take care of our own health. Tell me any strategies for me or for other female founders to how to make work-life balance.

Speaker 1:

I have exactly zero strategies for work-life balance hello everyone.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to femtech india podcast, where we discuss femtech and women's health. Femtech India podcast has reached the highest record on Apple and Spotify and we have listeners from 90 countries worldwide tuning in. I'm so excited to finally see my vision board coming to reality and taking our mission worldwide to support women's health. Today I'm sitting down with Savarnima, who's the co-founder of Gayatri. Gayatri is India's leading platform who is building women's health ecosystem. She has also been part of UN public health policy. Hi Sivarnima, how are you?

Speaker 1:

I'm well and I'm so happy that you know we're meeting finally for the first time.

Speaker 2:

I know, after all those conversations and you know various other things, I'm happy to finally see you in person, person yeah, I'm so glad I started this season 2 with videos so I could just get to meet all the founders in person, right?

Speaker 1:

yeah, no, that's a great idea.

Speaker 2:

I did not know that it was not on video earlier yeah, actually first season was completely audio, so we were doing virtually, so this is also great. That's how you can also reach out to more people exactly yeah, it's like really one-on-one with founders, but great. Thank you so much for joining in, and please tell us little more about your background and what got you into women's health so what got me to women's health is a relatively short answer.

Speaker 1:

It's a condensed thing. That also basically, uh, you know, currently I'm the co-founder of guy3. We are a very complete ecosystem for women's health. And, um, I haven't brought up, born and brought up in laknow, which is in utah pradesh, and uh, of course, you know, because my father was, um, he was a branch manager in a bank um, I got to see a lot of places in the hinterlands of utah pradesh, small places, you know, sometimes where there were no washrooms, sometimes there were no roads, sometimes where you know the women were not even coming out of their houses while, you know, the meal was being served to us, etc.

Speaker 1:

Really went to these really small towns, you know, in UP and you know, I just I just saw that I didn't have the language to articulate it at that particular point of time but it didn't seem right. You know, there seemed to be a lot of difference, you know, in women's existence. You know, in the city, in a smaller city, in a village, and some, you know other parts of the world and I also saw that, saw that you know just access to washrooms. I think that is something that really struck me as a young, as a young girl traveling outside of the main city. You know that there are, it's just impossible to travel, it's impossible to, you know, enjoy yourself and things like that. And then, when I studied in Delhi University, I studied at Hindu and then I started articulating what the problem was. I saw that, you know, when it comes to women in public spaces, the infrastructure that we have in place is not matching the aspiration that we have for women. We want more women in sports, in corporates, in, you know, public spaces, but we genuinely don't have the infrastructure not just washrooms but also safe mobility. You know just. You know traffic, you know the lights on the roads, etc.

Speaker 1:

And I realized that, while healthcare is something that's very important, you know, I saw a lot of women, I know, quitting the workforce, you know, for fertility and such reasons. I also saw another thing that there saw a lot of women, I know, quitting the workforce, you know, for fertility and such reasons. I also saw another thing that there were a lot of women still continuing in the workforce, but they didn't have the right kind of support. They were always stressed. I've always seen my mom being tired. Then I got married, I saw my mom-in-law always tired.

Speaker 1:

I just didn't feel that this was right. You know it just feels off. You know it just doesn't seem like you know how a human being should be living. And then, when I started researching more, I realized that you know there's research to back all of this, that you know women do live with a larger you know burden of disease, you know there is a larger burden of disability that they live with. And it just didn't sit well with me and I realized that healthcare is more than just about disease management and things like that. It's about overall well-being.

Speaker 1:

Right and that is what prompted my work in different parts of healthcare Policy entrepreneurship, patient advocacy, you know, doctor upskilling. I have the unique opportunity in my career to see and be part of all these aspects in different ways. So very grateful for those opportunities and now I'm building for women's health. It's very hard but it's exactly what I want to be doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it just kind of resonates with me as well, because I think all of us has our own stories that why we're doing what we're doing, and it and I always say it goes back to our growing up yes like we have seen not really, I have actually personally seen because women around me, my cousins or my mother even still they don't really prioritize their health. Yeah, they do, and I think preventive care is something we just we just don't talk about it. We don't prioritize in India, right? Yeah, we don't right.

Speaker 1:

And women even less so. And you know, the thing is that I think one of the things that really strikes me, even till today, that, you know, we, I think the language and the conversation is all wrong, you know is it, is it? Oh, can women have it all? That's the wrong question. The question is what are we socioculturally enabling women to aspire, you know, like, are we enabling them to aspire to a fulfilled life? And I think that's where we're fundamentally lacking. To be very honest, you know, in some countries it's child care, in some countries it's prohibitive cost of accessing health care. In some countries it is like, okay, mommy will do everything, whatever. You know, the cultural thing might be different in every country, in every context, but the consequence of that is the same that women are just doing, they're just working at home or in office or somewhere all the time. They do not sleep, they do not rest.

Speaker 2:

It's just not okay and it needs to change no, absolutely I think I agree on that and I'm so glad all of us, like companies like yours, trying to change that narrative yours as well yeah.

Speaker 2:

I, that's what I said all of us trying to contribute somehow. Yeah, and maybe we can change that for next generation, right? Yeah? So, um, you know, like of course, we did discuss all of that what are the existing problems in India and how preventive health hasn't been prioritized? Um, digital health is again something really, really new, but, um, do you feel that this is the right time to build for women's health in India overall?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I genuinely feel that, whenever we are, if you look at the ecosystem, the startup ecosystem overall, you will notice that whenever, in any industry, we've tried to tap into a women-only market whether it is makeup, fashion, you know, education or media, whatever it's been an uphill task. You know it's not been the most easy, because obviously this is an audience that requires that trust building, that requires, you know, women's financial freedom, etc. A lot of factors are there. So, similarly, when you start building in women's health, that's also more difficult, you know, than gender agnostic health care or things like that. But I do believe that it's the right time.

Speaker 1:

I do believe that it's the right time because I think women are starting to ask questions. There are more women joining the workforce, or there are more women who, even if they're quitting the workforce, they're very vocal about what the real reasons are. Right, you know that's also an important thing. You know they are not like silent quitters anymore, you know, right, uh, they do not consider that this is okay, that you know I'm just going to quit what I like doing and for some reason or the other. So a lot of conversation is coming. So I do believe that it's the right time for people who want to build to really start building those insights and identify problem areas which are the bigger pain points. You know, of course there are not all. The time is not right for all kinds of pain points, but for some I absolutely believe it's the right time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I think I totally agree, totally agree, like finally. I also feel like this femtech category has finally given voice to women so they can actually speak up what they're facing, and it's actually also breaking the stigma which was not really common before not at all.

Speaker 1:

Not at all. I mean to be very honest. You know, I'm just talking about an average man out there, right? You know, just a few years ago, men had not heard of things like PCOS or about how common menstrual cramps are, for example, or how difficult the IVF process can get. Right Now, when I'm talking to an average guy out there and I'm explaining what is it that I do, there are no looks of cluelessness. They're like oh yeah, we've heard about it Like PCOD.

Speaker 1:

If nothing else, they will know that PCOD is a thing and that it's difficult and that it causes problems or whatever it is. So this was not the case earlier. So I do think that these, these are, these are soft signals of course it's not empirical data, but this is soft signals that there is a conversation that is brewing, there is an awareness that is brewing and when that happens, you, you, automatically, your behavior is to seek better health care of course you know.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, I think that's, that's what it is yeah, I think the number of men I haven't interacted to. They have always like please help my wife. She's diagnosed with PCOS, like literally every person I know now when I tell them what I'm doing in fact, there was a statistic recently that you know.

Speaker 1:

It shows that, you know, millennial dads are 25 percent more involved as fathers than the previous generation, and I think one of the sort of beneficiaries of that attention to domesticity have been women. You know, like, where women men want to, they're asking questions about their partner's health. They want to, you know, talk about their mental health. They want to talk about co-parenting. You know, a healthier way.

Speaker 1:

And that is also a social force that makes a difference, that women are not at it alone they do have. Of course it's a generalization. You know there are many families still where women are hacking it all alone, but the tide definitely seems to be changing no, absolutely yeah, we're actually living in greatest time to change the world right now for women's health.

Speaker 2:

I agree, I do agree. What do you think? What are the current challenges building in women's health in India like, according to your experience?

Speaker 1:

You know a lot of people will say that funding is a big problem. Yeah, of course that is, but I think there's a fundamental thing, which is simply behavior change. You know one thing that I keep. You know, as long as I have been in women's health, you know whether, as a founder of or something else there are, women have a lot of questions about their health care. Right, you know they do. There is a genuine lack of information out there. There's a genuine lack of what is good and what's not good, what is trustworthy, what is not trustworthy. These things are still there and therefore the access, the urgency to access personalized care gets a bit delayed Because the fundamental questions are as yet unanswered. It's changing.

Speaker 1:

It's getting better, but that fundamental behavior change is still a challenge, right and when you're, and therefore a lot of people believe that the market is not large enough or something like that. I of course, disagree with that. You know, I do feel that the market is large.

Speaker 2:

The need is large.

Speaker 1:

But yes, we have to be a bit smart about what pain points are we picking up right now. We can't pick up every pain point and solve for everything right now, because that's not smart, of course.

Speaker 1:

We have to. So the challenge is to basically have those differentiated insights in which you know you have to invest your time you have to invest money, of course and really arrive at those insights that give your company an edge. You know, in behavior, where are the people dropping off? For example, they are accessing PCOS care, just as an example. At what point are they dropping off? What are the points that are making them stick? You have to watch these things very carefully you know and build accordingly.

Speaker 1:

You know, give more of what people are coming to you for. It's not enough to say that people are coming to you just for a non-judgmental gynecologist. What happens after that? It's beyond that, it's beyondologist. What happens after that? It's beyond that. What happens after that? What do you have to do to bring them? How do you convince a user who's not even tried your service that your experts are truly non-judgmental? You know me saying it is not going to convince anybody. So I think these are some things that we have to really go into the fundamentals of human behavior, women's behavior towards health care in their life. What place does health care have? And start from there? I think so, and it's definitely challenging. It requires a lot of um, time, patience, resources, uh, trust, faith in the market.

Speaker 2:

So it's definitely challenging, I would say no, I also agree that I think consumer behavior is one of the main pain point, like you really have to understand your consumers and what indian women want, because there are, of course, culture barriers too, right? So I always say that what you're building for us, when you're bringing to india, you might have to twist your business model, and when from india you're going to India, you might have to twist your business model. And when from India you're going to globally, you have to understand global perspective and also the women behavior, because you are actually building something really new right.

Speaker 2:

And I think understanding women and their behavior patterns are so important to build the best solution for them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there is one thing that I always tell you know, founders and women's health or whatever, that we don't necessarily have to just learn from women's health companies. Right, look at, I'm just giving a random example.

Speaker 1:

Just look at, pick up the data from I don't know all our cabs, right? How many women are booking it? How many of them are booking themselves? Right? How many are booking from their partners? Their partners are booking mostly. I don't have the data, but if I do have the data, it'll be very telling, right? Similarly, we see this. As you know, we have a d2c component as well. We see that many a time, uh, people are not booking, making a purchase from their own amazon accounts or something like that, right, right. So what happens is that, even just learning women's behavior on other channels, I think that just gives you a lot of insight, okay, what do they think about food? What do they think about mobility? What do they think about investment? Of course, you will be able to understand how they will behave when it comes to healthcare.

Speaker 2:

No, absolutely it's very important, yeah, and I think like things like that. What you just mentioned about even booking a cab, right, it's just that women are so dependent on their partner. They tend to do that, right, you know, it's what you said like a completely resonate, because certain behavior partners. We are dependent on our partner, so I I book a chauffeur so many times and I actually don't know how to book it. I'm just being very honest, because I tell my partner every time he books my ride, I book the cab for three, four hours, whatever, whenever I require.

Speaker 2:

And, and same goes for Amazon account. So I have my Nike account where I just shop my skincare and all the things for him, but he has amazon account where I could just order my. So I think it's just like two different. Uh, you know, it's like, it's like very different when we look at, uh, you know, female behavior or male behavior, and, and I think same goes for health, because women are, as I said, like that, they are more dependent and they tend to take their partner for, yes, at least consult or take advice, because even for a small thing like we live in a culture in India that even for pregnancy, whole family gets involved yes, absolutely. It's not just women who can just simply decide that, okay, I want to decide this, I want to do this. No, that's not impossible and then there comes financial element.

Speaker 2:

if you're not financially, um, you know, you know you don't have a financial security. Of course you're dependent on your partner who's going to pay for it, so his opinion will, of course, will matter. And even I think there was a study also says that women who are actually independent, they tend to make better health choices, but they also, again, like to take partners opinion yeah, and also you know.

Speaker 1:

Uh, one more thing is that this is something that I see on a daily basis, when you know, because when you're involved in the sales of everything which I think every founder should, by the way um, that you know, it's not just about, it's not enough that you're working. I've also noticed that women's health healthcare spending, which is just your own healthcare, for preventative healthcare and all that you know that gets enabled when you have some dispensable income. It is not considered a priority spending category or a priority expense item in a woman's monthly budget. There is an element of and see, I don't consider that to be unfair. Okay, right, it's.

Speaker 1:

I understand that, because this is not a behavior that we've been taught up or brought up to. You know, do and things like that. So I understand that, but it's. What I have realized is that it's not enough that women are just working. Right, we see that women with some dispensable income, you know they are the ones who are able to take faster decisions. That, okay, let me. This is. You know, the cost is not prohibitive. It's worth a try, let me give it a try.

Speaker 1:

So I think that is also important over here, that you know that is working enough. Does that increase your trial propensity? Like you know, with makeup and all we are always trying, let me try this, let me try that. In healthcare.

Speaker 2:

We don't do that. We don't do that. Yeah, and I really feel like you know, the healthcare future should be like makeup, and I always been comparing because, you know, just look at three years back, before COVID, we didn't have many products available in India right and we will just always get it from duty free or someone traveling.

Speaker 2:

They bring it for us. Now you just name the brand. Everything is in India now Because there is consumer demand. Women are paying for it and you know, makeup and skincare industry has become so big because it's just that also the social media trends, or people are just more willing to experiment things and they tend to buy more things. But with health, as you said, like you know, we don't really experiment. Like you know, even if we look at the consumer landscape of supplements and all that, I'm not sure how many women actually take care of themselves, like you know, really tracking their supplements or their deficiencies and like regulating everything. Not very much. That's like very, very rare. So when we talk about health care, I always see that you know, in next five years the industry should be as big as how the makeup and skincare is for fingers crossed like literally.

Speaker 2:

I think that's then we can see wow, like you know, we really made some impact absolutely I agree right, you know, when we talk about, like chronic health conditions. Right, like many women are actually experiencing it, but they don't really talk about it more.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, one of the things is that there is a lot of awareness building in education that has to go into telling women, also to breaking it to them rather right that some conditions are chronic. Yeah, you know, for example, something like a PCOS or an endometriosis. Yes, there are many, many, many ways to manage it, to mitigate the symptoms, to see to it that you're living your best life despite having those conditions, but there is no, you know, magic cure for it. So this is a hard conversation to have, right, but it's an important conversation. So, firstly, telling women sensitively and with science backed facts, right, that some conditions are chronic.

Speaker 1:

Then comes a question of you know, diagnosis of PCOD and PCOS is still something that you know, people know it's there in our common language, as we were talking earlier. Pcos is still something that you know, people know, it's there in our common language, as we were talking earlier, and people still know, you know, some basic sort of symptoms around it. But you know there are some other equally prevalent conditions, like endometriosis, which, by the way, in India, the Endometriosis Foundation of India has this data that it's as common as diabetes, you know. So about 25 million women in India could be having this. The welcome trust, welcome India trust alliance actually puts it at a higher number. They believe that 247 million women worldwide have endometriosis and 45 million women in India might be having it.

Speaker 1:

You know, so somewhere between 25 to 45. So that is the incidence of endometriosis. That's a massive number, but there is still. The average time taken to diagnose a condition like endometriosis is 7 to 15 years, simply because the symptoms are heavy periods, painful periods, all things which women just live with, you know. So misdiagnosis is rampant. Similarly with autoimmune conditions like fibromyalgia right where you know, or rheumatoid arthritis or thyroid diabetes a lot of these conditions you know they bring along chronic pain and women worldwide. There's a lot of data that now shows that worldwide, you know, 80% of people with chronic pain conditions are women, right, you know. But the reason why you know sociocultural behaviors matter so much is because you know there are so many experiences that are physically painful, that are just integrated into women's lives, like menstruation, pms you know miscarriages, right.

Speaker 2:

We don't talk about miscarriages at all, by the way, and they're extremely common, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, things like that. So the diagnosis is a huge problem, right? Knowing that these conditions are chronic is a huge problem. Once we get across and get past these two barriers, do we come to the important question of okay, how do I manage this? Well, right, that, unfortunately, is a question that comes much later in the life cycle, you know.

Speaker 2:

First is the diagnosis gap and various other things as well only thing we can change is to include women in design, include women in clinical trials, include women in coding research, like, I think, pretty much diversity all across, right.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Yeah, you know that's the thing Like when we talk about women's health. You know this is such a the women's health outcomes are dependent on so many interrelated factors. There is, of course, government policy, there is pharmacological policy, then there is, you know, policy around workplaces. You know AI, we are building AI. But you know ai, we are building ai. But you know where are the women? You know there are, I think, 25 or less than that. Ai jobs are, uh, you know, being done by, are occupied by, women. So that's also a skewed ratio. So, um, that's the thing. You know that when it comes to women's health, uh, there has to be a bottom up, bottoms up, uh, bottoms up building. That needs to be done.

Speaker 1:

We can't, you know, suddenly women with dispensable income will not start taking care of themselves all of a sudden, you know, when we have not had that upbringing, when we don't have that culture, so it's not going to be a sudden behavior change. That doesn't happen. You know, like, for example, pain medication, pain medication has often not been tested on women. You know blood thin, for example, pain medication. Pain medication has often not been tested on women. You know blood thinners and things like that. Similarly, this is, of course, medication, but there are also differentiated symptoms, like cardiovascular disease. Women display different symptoms for a heart attack than men, which often get misdiagnosed. So you know, these are all.

Speaker 1:

So then it's like sometimes your mind boggles that you know what all. Do we change? Do we upskill the doctors, do we change policy? Do we make, you know, hospital design more gender inclusive? And? But ultimately, we forget that. What is? What are we ultimately trying to solve for? We are ultimately trying to solve for the fact that 50%, roughly 50%, of the world's population is accessing suboptimal resources, right. Right, they have women live longer, but their burden of disease is also higher, Right, and that is ultimately an economic burden as well, of course. It is ultimately a huge economic burden. You know India is striding towards a five trillion dollar economy. How can we do that if our women are not healthy? Not healthy not in the workforce, not doing their best, you know, not able to commute without, you know, like, feeling like really tired, and you know all those kinds of things. So we do need to now, when we think inclusivity, it has to be more than just tokenism, otherwise we're doing nothing but pulling ourselves back. No, of course, that's how.

Speaker 1:

I see it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it just feels like the world is not designed for women. It's not Because even AI has so many bias because it was designed by men and I think, if you look at research also, like 65 percent of AI data is biased yeah, and which is disappointing because, you know, technology was supposed to be the great equalizer right.

Speaker 1:

That was a promise of technology. The promise of AI. The promise of technology is that it's a great equalizer Right, but that promise has, by and large, failed itself. It's not an equalizer who has. I mean, you know, just in some we were having some AI policy discussions with some, you know, commonwealth groups and all of that Right.

Speaker 1:

The things is that, which data sets are even accessible on which this AI is being built? I mean, do we have data about women in conflict zones? Do we have data, you know, about women, women of color, women incarcerated in jails? You know women who are, you know, you know indigenous and tribals? We don't always have that. So what data sets are informing the building of that AI is also pretty skewed. So I do believe that, you know, policy changes encode that inclusivity. Of course, execution is what matters, but at least if you have the policy, then you have the spirit of inclusion codified in your law of the land Right. So that's why I'm a huge believer of policy change, you know, and we, of course in India, we're seeing a lot of change as well.

Speaker 1:

In the last you know few years, we've seen a sort of ratcheting up of policy changes and I really hope that continues.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think the best way is that you know like it should start from the education level, like talking about inclusivity to the children, and then make sure women are actually part of everything which is designed for the world, so we are not treated as separate from, you know, men, because the way it works for men, the same way it should work for women as well.

Speaker 1:

Right, Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So you know when we talk about in general, like in India, still 60 to 70 percent people prefer offline care and especially women are dependent on health care services for hospitals and old traditional methods. How do we get them to online care, Like what has been your challenge?

Speaker 1:

This is a challenge that you know. When it comes to health care, the trust is still in a brick and mortar facility. You know the touch and feel aspect is present, all of that, and I think that's fair, right, and I think trying to replicate that entire system online is the wrong strategy. We have to see what are the gaps. I mean, obviously, if you know the brick and mortar facilities were solving the problems, then we wouldn't be here, right? Exactly, we are here because, while the brick and mortar facilities you know are great with you know surgical touch and feel, you know things, and of course, we encourage a lot of Gainac visits for pap smears, for mammograms, all of that, there is something. There are some critical things that those facilities are not able to offer. Right, and I think the digital solutions have to be complementary to that. It is not like a lot.

Speaker 1:

We are a women's health company, but our highest utilization comes from nutrition and therapy, not gynecology. Okay, that is just a you know that's. Gynacs are there to add the clinical rigor to our, you know, to the meal plans or nutritional therapy plans that we give. Right, but the gap is very clear that the holistic management at your pace, based on your priorities, with that handholding, with that personalization. That is the real gap that is not getting fulfilled in the traditional facilities.

Speaker 1:

And now, in the last few years, more and more doctors, gps, you know, endocrinologists, gynecologists, fertility specialists they are encouraging people to focus on their mental health, on their diet, their fitness, and they say very clearly and very correctly that without that, your health care is incomplete, no matter how many medications you do. And while that is extremely important and that's where I think online, you know, things can come in where you don't have to think about going somewhere again. And let's face it, it's just people just don't do it like, they just deprioritize. You know, think about, you know, a pap smear or something. How many women do it regularly? I don't have the data they don't even know actually.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I don't have the empirical data on this, but I can bet that the number is not good, because, even among our cohort of people, we have to encourage people that look, if you don't have a trusted Gainac in your city, we will find and recommend someone from our community. But please go get that pap smear Right, please go get that mammogram. Have that Gainac partner in your life. So I think it's very important to leverage the brick and mortar establishment Right, while complementarily building that online platform which adds to that aspect of convenience, personalization and holistic care.

Speaker 2:

No, of course, and I also feel that if we really want to contribute and grow the industry, it's really important to have overall healthcare infrastructure, which is your hospital pharmas and all of that. And you know, like, of course, I would love to know a little more about you know, how do you see that, the role of larger healthcare infrastructure to women's health overall? You know?

Speaker 1:

um, there has been, uh, you know, a huge. For example, now there's apollo has apollo cradle right, or fortis has fortis lafemme, you know. So obviously the um recognition is there that women do need that differentiated care. It can't just be walking into a doctor in the same way.

Speaker 1:

So the recognition that women need differentiated care, obviously, because you know there are different life cycle events. You know there's menstruation, menopause, fertility, childbirth, postpartum care, and you know everything that's associated with it. So that recognition is there. I think what is missing is the agility, right, you know. And the second thing is addressing the nuance. When we're talking about fertility, it's not just about, okay, get pregnant, it's really about preparing yourself physically and mentally. Is that being done? Well, I think that agility and nuance, these are the two things that are slight gaps which I believe that these larger institutions can invest a little bit more in partnering with you know well, organizations like us who have that capability and who've done that delivery Pharmacologically.

Speaker 1:

I think there are gaps. There is huge gaps in, you know, the research around PMS, research around things like vaginismus, pelvic floor therapies and things like that. It's just not a research agenda, but it does have an impact on family health, of course. But it does have an impact on family health, of course. You know, like the number of people who are living really dissatisfied sexual lives is because sexual health is not solved for in a very proactive way, but it needs to. This is just an example, right? So there is a lot that I think pharma can step in and step up.

Speaker 2:

I feel, I think they could play a huge role in terms of building right research.

Speaker 1:

Yes, exactly, Building the right research and also the community outreach. I mean, for example, you know there has been medication around endometriosis for a very long time, but I don't think that there has been adequate community outreach, you know, and that leads to misdiagnosis, mismedication, things like that.

Speaker 2:

I do think that the community outreach, you know the right kind of empathetic marketing, that is something that pharma companies can truly leverage tech companies comes in because they are always more focused toward education educating their consumers and understanding consumer behavior, rather than just selling some products in massive quality right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah you actually work with a lot of b2b right, and how has been the response towards corporate wellness care?

Speaker 1:

so you know it's been interesting. You know I wouldn't say it's been bad, it obviously hasn't been. You know, off the off the record, I mean you know this thing. But I would say that there is the workplace mentality, the corporate mentality is also changing. You know there is a lot of focus on how do we hire, retain, hire and retain women and also ensure that they are growing up the ladder. You know so a lot of companies are making and across the board, whether it's companies like you know which happen to be our clients, like lnt right, you know, or even there is definitely that focus I think every company just approaches it in a different way.

Speaker 1:

You know some people just want to, you know, have robust fertility benefits and postpartum benefits built into their insurance. Some companies who are our clients, you know, like the 20 of them, they work with companies like us where, you know, we provide their handheld care to women who are in corporates because they're too busy. They just do not have the time to care for themselves, especially the preventative things and all of that. There are some corporates that talk a little bit. They focus a bit more on the mental health aspect. I think the approaches are very different and different companies are adding value in a very interesting way. We are one of them.

Speaker 1:

One thing that I will say, though, is that there has to be one slight, fundamental change in the way corporates and workplaces think about well-being and wellness, which is that, look, we have to recognize, as of today, that people are spending a majority of their time either working or at work, right? So the workplace has to foster a health seeking behavior. Okay, it it does become incumbent on the employer to enable that. Currently, yes, the you know, the employers are trying to do something around mental health, around yoga, around this, but they don't. It's not in the dna of most companies, right?

Speaker 1:

I do think that the workplace has become a huge plane of our existence and therefore health care and health seeking behavior needs to be built into it. It's not enough to just give insurance. You know that's anyway like IPD stuff, you know, but your top of mind, daily health care concerns like your weight, gut, thyroid, you know, mental health, bloating all of these are actually do affect your productivity currently most. Well, I'm not saying all, but most workplaces do not have a concrete solve around these things. And it has to be there, because you're sitting over here, you're snacking. It's happening at work. It's very common. It's very common. You lose track. You're having coffee, you're snacking. This is how workplaces are happening in the modern situation, how workplaces are happening more in the modern situation, and therefore the health of the employee has to become a more integral part of the DNA and I think it can't be just seen as a diversity and inclusion and something like that kind of a situation. It has to be much more ingrained.

Speaker 2:

I think that's a change that must happen yeah, but overall you're seeing that corporates are stepping up. They are.

Speaker 1:

They're giving a shot, like companies like us. We are about what we are less than two years old. We are a young company. Of course. You know me and you know the founder Shelley. We are, of course, experienced founders in the health care and women's space and all of that, but we are a new company. But there are enough. There's women's space and all of that, but we're a new company, right, but there are enough. There's a very encouraging number of companies that are giving us a shot, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I yeah, that's a. I think, uh, that's more than we can ask for at this time. So, um, I'm happy with the direction. Not very happy with the scale, but very happy with the direction, I would say yeah, I think, if the direction is good, the scale will happen eventually will happen. Scale will happen eventually. Yes, right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Great, very personal question. I speak to so many founders and everyone has the same complaint about work life balance. What's that yeah literally, and I think all of us are so busy building for women's health but we often don't take care of our own health and tell me any strategies for me or for other female founders to how to make a work-life balance. Everyone I talk to they're really just struggling to balance this.

Speaker 1:

I have exactly zero strategies for work-life balance, because I have none, but here is how I'm coping with it. So in the beginning it was really hard. I was not sleeping well, I was skipping meals and I was like you know that, okay, this is a phase, we'll get over it. You never get over it. If you're a founder, you never are in a position where things on your plate will be less urgent. You will always have at least 50 things that have to be done right then, at that moment Exactly, and 50 fires to put out. You know that's just the life of you know that's just what you sign up for, sorry. Now, I think one thing that has helped me is that radical acceptance. You know that this is something I signed up for. I signed up for it because, you know, I've been married for a long time. I don't have children yet. My husband and I, we are proud prospective adoptive parents and I want to give myself a shot right now.

Speaker 1:

I'm taking a chance. I have come to acknowledge that. You know there are different phases of life that require different kinds of focus areas. I don't know what it's going to be like when I become a mom eventually. Will I want to take a break or not, I don't know. But right now is not that time. Right now I want to just pump full on ahead and do what it takes to build something which I can be very proud of. Um, so I think I have accepted the fact that it is going to be hard, right, but I think one of the things that it's not a strategy really, but it just happened in a conversation.

Speaker 1:

So one of these days, you know see, you have good days and bad days. So one of my colleagues, you know we, our orders were a bit slow that day, right, and you know she was like, oh, my God, I'm having the worst day. It's such a bad day. I said why? What happened? She's like, oh, but the orders are slow today. And I told her something that you know. I just it was the first time I to know.

Speaker 1:

If we live order to order and customer to customer, we will lose our sanity. Of course, you know, we have to think that, okay, I just and this is what I do that, okay, today did we have, did we see, 100 utilization of some expert? Right, did we see, uh, you know, a great conversation with a prospective, you know, client? Uh, did I have a great conversation with my uh, you know, between co-founders? Right, did we make a breakthrough in our interpersonal something or the other? There are many indicators in a startup on a day-to-day basis, some of which are negative, some of which are positive, and I think what has helped me is seeing that, okay, are all my wins about just revenue and growth? Perhaps not, you know.

Speaker 1:

Then, that way, we lose our sanity and I don't want to do that. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm frustrated about my work. I don't want to be frustrated about femtech, I don't want to be frustrated about my startup. I don't want to be frustrated about healthcare. That's my life's work. Honestly, that's my life's work, so I better pace it out, you know so that's what I tell myself.

Speaker 2:

It's very hard, but that's what I do. But I don't have a work-life balance. Yeah, I just don't. I don't have a work-life balance. Same with me. Also, like I've just accepted that fact, I just have to adjust my lifestyle according to my work. Yes, because and as you said, things never gets over. Yeah, it's just every day adding more and more and more and I think as a founder also, when you actually take a break. I have a lot of I did I feel good.

Speaker 2:

Oh my god, like, oh my god, like I've just missed up so much on my life or my work. I have so much to catch up, so I don't like to have that anxiety. So, even even if I'm traveling, like, I always have access to my email I always have. So it's just like how do you better manage your work with your lifestyle? It's something I have also learned, but, um, I'm not sure any founders can have work-life balance. Honestly.

Speaker 1:

No, it's not possible, because you know, like, that's just not how it is, unfortunately, or fortunately, whatever, I don't know. But the point of the matter is that you know, this is just my thought process in terms of work-life balance. You know, the thing is that you know, my mom, like always scoldingly asks me, like what are you doing? Why are you doing this? You know, like, people keep saying this. You know, the adam grant kind of people are like oh, never forget your why. I'm like I can never forget my why, because my mom is always asking me. You know, then, why are you doing this? You know, like, why don't you? My father keeps asking me my mom.

Speaker 1:

Okay, my dad is like he's, he's in his, you know he's like I do whatever you want as long as you're happy. But, uh, my mom is like but why are you doing this? Your health, and she's not wrong from a momly perspective. The thing is that, um and this is a question I do grapple with you know that there are multiple ways of working in health care, and why am I choosing? I just feel that you know, um, see, um, I'm a person who's very interested in space and the cosmos, and you know like tidbits about that, and I do feel that I mean, who are we really?

Speaker 1:

It's like I mean, how dare we think we are that important? It's ultimate human hubris that you know, oh, we're going to change the world or whatever. So I'm under no, you know misconception that I'm changing the world. I'm not, but what I am doing is playing a very tiny role, of course, in making a tiny dent, and you know these cacophony of you know, changes do make that bigger change. 25 years later will I look back and say, you know, I was on the right side of history. You know, did I play a tiny role? I don't have enough hubris to think that I'm changing the world, but I do think that you know. I know that because, because you know I talk about health and everything.

Speaker 1:

There are so many people who've asked me about therapy. You know, have you tried therapy? I, for example, take therapy, you know. So I'm very open about it. I take therapy, otherwise I will go insane. So a lot of people have asked me have you taken therapy? A lot of people have asked me about, you know, sexual dysfunction. You know, I had a health scare a huge health scare in 2019, which impaired my health. My husband and I worked on it. You know. I talk very openly about it because these are real things that people are struggling with, but they don't have the space. You know, if that is what I consider as changing the world, you just change the world around yourself exactly like like really normalizing that there should be no shame talking about it absolutely these are actually real problems, like yeah, where do you go and talk about?

Speaker 1:

it and you have to talk about, yeah, you have to talk about, um, you know, being sexually healthy. Yeah, you have to talk about being emotionally healthy. And, uh, I think, just visibilizing these conversations, I'm sure you experiences, I'm sure a lot of people in your family ask you like tidbit of health queries, right, you know? Like my bhabhi randomly asked me okay, listen, uh, I'm thinking about this pap smear. What exactly is it? I'm like sure, let me tell you. You know, right, she's like really old. I mean like she's much older than I am and she's like what do you just tell me more about it? You know, girls these days talk about it a lot. Yeah, I'm like sure. I mean, you know, if you haven't got one yet, you really should. And then I sat her down and I told her about these things that you know, it's it, it does make me. That is my why. Yeah, you know, that is my why.

Speaker 2:

Honestly, no, I think I agree, like, in fact, like my sister I, I just put her into therapy because she's into finance and she is investor banker and she works with male dominated industry young, you know, women of color and kind of pressure she had she was actually literally crying every day, yeah, and then her company space for the, you know, therapy and I was like why are you just not seeking that? Then because you know like, it's just very different like there are culture differences too right?

Speaker 2:

yeah, absolutely, and I think she kind of learned that how to handle her work pressure and environment because, like when you are new to something and then of course you have so many people around you and especially when you are in male dominated industries- and that becomes like, and she's very, very sensitive and for her. It was my dad was saying for the longest time oh, you don't have depression, just go stand in sun like you're just always in literally such a typical Indian parent. Let's see why nobody?

Speaker 1:

understands it and because I'm in there, I'm in this, so I'm like you have to take a therapy yeah, yeah, like my mom is like yeah, that's because you don't call your mom enough, you know, yeah, she's like, of course you will be how you'll have anxiety and depression. Okay, that might be true, whatever, but you know, I'm just saying that, yeah, I think that we have to just sometimes have that patience also as founders. It's a long term game. It's a long term game, we're in it for the long haul.

Speaker 2:

Either you're just in and out. Don't be just like and I think I've just fully committed Like I know what are the challenges, what are the hurdles. I've chosen this path, but we're not, as you said, I'm not the only one who's trying to change the world. We're just playing a very small role to bring that change?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and you know, the thing is also this that I mean honestly. Let's just zoom out for a second. The startup ecosystem in India is really young, yeah, okay, as compared to the rest of the world, the market is tiny.

Speaker 2:

For example, the market cap of say.

Speaker 1:

United Health Group in the US or something that's like 486 billion or something like that. In India it must be like 10 billion or something. I mean, the differential is huge in any market. So we need that much more grit. We need that much more. I think grace for our own selves that if we start beating ourselves up over every client lost or every metric, then we will simply not be able. We are doing the service to the work that we've signed up for.

Speaker 1:

So, we've got to, like you know, show yourself a little bit of grace, yeah. Okay, be thorough, do your 500 percent.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but instead of beating yourself up, go down to the fundamentals yeah, no, there always will be disappointments in your career, like honestly yeah and not everything can turn out the way you imagine, but it just like it. I think we learn with the time how to cope up with the thing just like in life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just like in life. Yeah, just like in life. I mean, honestly, my husband and I, we were married when we were both like 26, 27. Right, I wanted to be a mom by the time I was 30. Right, I am above 30 now. I'm not going to be a mom for another two years. Right, life did not turn out the way I wanted, yeah, but honestly, mom for another two years, life did not turn out the way I wanted, but, honestly, it's been the best. I mean, you know, these have been my best years, you know my most fulfilling years emotionally, intellectually. And yeah, I mean, things don't turn out the way you want. You've just got to row your boat with it. It's just, you know, have to have a little more resilience.

Speaker 2:

I feel yeah, yeah, no. I I think that really really goes a long way for mental health or kind of building that culture for your team, because you're also working with bunch of people who are actually dependent on you. So if you're not healthy mind, if you don't have healthy mind, you can't actually motivate. You can't motivate, not only can you not motivate you.

Speaker 1:

Also. I genuinely think, see, I have seen the difference in the way I make decisions, when I'm like really nervous and fear driven, and when I'm like, okay, fine, let's just take a chill pill, yeah, and let's talk. I do think that the nature of conversation is just different. Right, you know it's more rational. Obviously you know, yeah, so, um, but it's all right. I think you know, um, this is something that we're trying to do. It's more rational, obviously you know so, but it's all right, I think you know this is something that we're trying to do. It's a new thing, it's a different thing. I think building anything in India is so hard, so hard. It's very hard to build a business in India. It takes a lot of time. I just, you know, feel that sometimes you've got to stop, you've got to pause, just for no other reason than okay, today also, I've stayed the course. Yeah, you have to do that, otherwise it's just very hard. Otherwise you might as well pack up and go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sometimes it gets really hard to get through the day only because it's so challenging. Like, oh, my god, I want to just do all my to-do's, yeah, and then get done with this thing. And then I start to prioritize what's important instead of spending so much time off just doing my to-do is my emails and now I just like, okay, what's important, I just prioritize that, yes, and then rest of the things I get done over the weekend. So it's like I want to be my more productive self also don't want to stress out, but also want to make sure that I'm moving forward, right? So I think these are the changes like I have kind of done. And, of course, um, there's no work-life balance. Actually, just enjoy the process, what you're building, and be proud about it.

Speaker 1:

I have a question for you. Like, honestly, this is something I keep grappling with. You know, the thing is that I don't know who said it. I read it on someone's LinkedIn, you know like one of those people motivational people but I agreed with them.

Speaker 1:

But, they're like, you know what is. Is work-life balance the real question? Or is work-life integration the real question? And I just think that you know, as, like people who, especially who are entrepreneurs, they, they are working as founders and as builders of companies. Right, because it is something to do with their own mindset, it is to do with their character and their nature. It's a very fiber of I don't think there is a separation, right? You know that, uh, motivation to do it is very intrinsic to you. That's why you're taking the shot, exactly, honestly speaking, I mean, I'm just thinking why would someone want to do this every day?

Speaker 2:

Like you know, really give yourself this anxiety.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, I don't have the right answer. Honestly speaking, to each their own, and I also recognize that as a female founder. I have seen so many female professionals when I'm interviewing, when I'm hiring what are their priorities? This and that? Right, there are so few women who have the privilege, yeah, to just put everything aside and, you know, for a few years I'm going to just do this, do this. Yeah, it's not a widespread right, uh, privilege it's, it's, it is not a widespread thing.

Speaker 1:

So sometimes that too gives you, you know, gratitude that of course, at least I'm able to do it, yeah, and how do you also use your privilege in the right way?

Speaker 2:

because I feel privileged to do what I'm doing today, because I am someone I cannot sit quietly. I have been working all my life, after straight out of my college, and I think there's no time that I have actually lived my life how one teenager should have. And I keep complaining and I'm always say that I'm just gonna cover up everything once I get married because you know, then there's so much time to do things like I'll be proud that I have built something right. So for me, for my work is very, very important. Without my work, these like I've I honestly can go into depression or something else.

Speaker 2:

I completely I always have to keep on doing something to keep myself and, as you rightly said, the privilege and the time that I don't have any other commitment right now. So this is my golden time and I want to make the most out of it. Why?

Speaker 1:

not, and then you know, this will make you feel less guilty when there is a phase of your life that demands more. I mean, like I keep saying, you know, like tomorrow I'm just saying, look, I don't know how I'm going to be as a mom there, I'm just saying, look, I don't know how I'm going to be as a mom. There might be a situation where I feel like taking a pause. Right, I don't want to feel frustrated about myself. Same, I'm missing X, y, z. No, I gave my everything when I had the time. Yeah, now is the time for this. I don't know For everyone. Maybe I'm going to just get tired of that. I don't want to add more to my brain. Yeah, I get that Already. There is too much that I cannot process, so I don't want to add more layers. If that question of work-life balance is not coming, I just like it's background noise. Like when someone comes and gives me gyan on this. I'm like, okay, it's not sad. Yeah, Sometimes we feel that someone comes and gives me Gyan on this.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, okay, it's not sour, yeah someday we feel that we're missing out on so many things. But I'm just like it's okay.

Speaker 1:

I'll be very honest what I'm missing out of stuff I don't want to be doing. I don't want to be socializing with random people.

Speaker 2:

I say, oh my god, I don't want to be no, but missing out, as in, I love traveling because I think that just brings you a different perspective. That is true, travel is something that I miss, but I also don't socialize Honestly, like I'm either with my team or I have a living maid and she's with me all the time, Like or my partner. That's it.

Speaker 1:

You're right. I see the same faces every day.

Speaker 2:

I have no other life like my work, my, my team members or the person who lives with me, or my partner whenever I see him or my parents are just other part of the world and we just do like virtual calls and correct and then I'm just like and honestly I also feel like there's nothing I'm missing out as well in socializing, like I do want to build the right kind of network exactly and have the connection which I'm able to do virtually so I don't have to spend my physical time, yes, in fact, you know, like even in traveling, I mean so okay.

Speaker 1:

So in my case it's been like this that so I got married relatively young, okay, both me and my husband, and there was a lot of you know that okay questions about where are you going, what are you doing, this and that you know. So there are some families where you know, after marriage you have more freedom. Exactly that was the case with me. It's not with everyone, it's not at all with everyone, but in my case that's how it turned out to be and I do think that you know it is my travel, my attitude towards travel, has also changed. You know, for example, I, when you go to a place, of course enjoy yourself, but you also want to know a place, right, I go to places and I try to see, okay, what are some independent bookstores there?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I see your stories. You like books a lot.

Speaker 1:

I love books and I see independent, not like you know the big chains. But what are the kind of independent bookstores? What are the kind of events that they're doing? Who are the of independent bookstores? What are the kind of events that they're doing? Who are the? You know, women's health entrepreneurs or something like that? You know, whenever I go to any place tiny place, big place, whatever London, or some tiny little thing in Himachal is the same thing I try to, because you know that really gives you the sense of a place, right, you know, and I I do think that my attitude towards I travel, I travel less frequently but more fully. You know what I mean to say yeah, get that Like. So I generally one day I feel like I am missing out on a lot, I am missing out on sleep. That is one thing I don't want to miss out on.

Speaker 2:

But the rest of the, I am blessed to have a good sleep.

Speaker 1:

Oh God, I sleep like a baby in two seconds. My husband also. Like literally like a baby in two seconds. My husband also like literally, yeah, he touches his head on the pillow.

Speaker 2:

He's like snoring and I'm like my god, like sometimes you know, like I don't snore but I can pass out in two seconds, like I I'm not one of those who would just be awake till midnight or something.

Speaker 2:

No, like I'm very on my time oh my god yeah, I want that and I think I think my parents were always very strict. They would never even let us sleep on sundays, also till seven or eight. They were so strict. My mom was a so strict person like I used to hate. Now I thank her because there's some discipline I'm building in my life and it's just like I just can't be that person sleeping all day or waking up. I just hate myself being like that and I can't be. No, no.

Speaker 1:

I am the person on those memes where you know, like the person who is in the blanket overthinking at 12 midnight, that's me. You're like my sister. Yeah, I am like, oh my God, like I am very rational through the day, yeah, and my irrationality floods my brain at night when I'm trying to sleep and I can't sleep. It's just so bad. That is one thing I want to fix. The rest, I feel, is fine. Whatever I'm missing out, I want to miss out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think there's so much to catch up in the world later. Let's just continue building what we're doing. Yeah, great, but you know it's such a candid conversation we had about pretty much everything about life and, of course, the work-life balance revolves around everything our work.

Speaker 2:

And my last question is you know, how do you see women's health like evolving in India? Of course we see a lot of growth, a lot of factors like demographic factors in India that you know, having just look at Asia is 2 billion women and India itself 614 million women, and if you look and numbers are great, but like, how do you see, like you know, overall adaptation of the industry and what are the, what are the roles of communities in this growth?

Speaker 1:

so, you know, um, I genuinely and very joyfully and candidly consider this phase to be the trial era of women's health solutions. I think this has never been attempted right. Everything needs it. This is in every industry. Before ola, there were other industry. Before Ola, there were other things. Right Before Zomato, there were other things. Just saying, you know, like in every industry, there is a trial era. We are in a trial zone right now. We are testing use cases, we are testing the market, we are testing adoption, we are testing, you know, what is it that women really want? And building those use cases. I feel that if there is, if people are smart with how they are using their cash, the future is very bright. Right, I think that there definitely will be. I also think that what this is doing is that these standalone women's health solutions you know what they're doing is that they're really making a case for these gender agnostic healthcare companies to also focus more on women the ones that are flush with cash, right.

Speaker 2:

I have also seen patterns from like fertility chains, cloud9, motherhood and all of that. Yes, they're all turning into digital care and they do have online care models too right, yes, exactly because these guys are, like, funded by some of the biggest private equity funds and they have money and they can. They can play and try now right.

Speaker 1:

See, 80 percent of india's health, healthcare spending is still happening in brick and mortar facilities, of course. So if those become agile and if those become on the transformative path, then why not? I mean, you know like, then that's great. I mean, you know, if that's where the spending is happening, that's where the people are going, if that changes, then great.

Speaker 2:

I mean, then our job is done, everyone benefits.

Speaker 1:

You know I mean like, like, but I do think that you know I am and also you know, say I'm just giving an example say some big protein company or healthy food company, which, which may not be women oriented right, but because they're seeing that they're recognizing the female demographic as a very significant one right, they're now pushing that audience and those solutions as well, right, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I do see that building for women and their well-being and their health and mental health Right, that's already happening. It's going to keep happening, right? What I would say is that I think being supremely smart with resources Right is the way to stay in the game, and if you do that, then you know then you're, then you're okay.

Speaker 2:

It was really nice catching up with you. I totally loved our conversation. I just didn't feel like we were sitting in a podcast, it was just like like one-on-one, and I think we've done that many times when we catch up on virtual calls right, yeah that's right.

Speaker 1:

So you asked me about the role of communities and I think that's played a huge role. And you know I keep saying that I'm very candid about these things that we wouldn't be sitting here building a women's health company if there weren't such attempts made in the past Right company. If there weren't such attempts made in the past Right. They may have varying degrees of success, of course, but it's because you know there were community-oriented companies, there were media-oriented companies. You know Gayatri itself is a bit of an offshoot of she, the People, etc. Right.

Speaker 1:

Similarly, with Femtech India, you know I mean to bring these voices together. You know we are all doing our work in our different whatever things, and you know, in a separate way, in an unconnected way, our voices are not loud enough. But when we come under one platform you know the way that you are amplifying it then the voice is louder, you become, you know. Then data is more robust, insights are more clear and cohesive. So I think women fronting communities are doing a great job and you know Femtech in India is doing a great one with this focus on Femtech. I think that's huge. You never had this before and I hope you keep doing what you do. Apologies for your work-life balance, but know that it's for a good cause.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, as I mentioned in my LinkedIn post yesterday, I'm working on my 20 years plan okay yeah, wow, yeah, that's, I was, it has to be no other way.

Speaker 2:

I mean, there's no other way, and I was very clear when I'm when I was jumping into it because I did my whole research before yeah really taking that big decision, that what I want to do and where I'm heading in next five, ten years because it's always about long term plan and yeah, and what I was building, that was billion dollar industry. So if I was, I will be in the same industry. Where would I be in five years? And if I leave that, build something which is this is more satisfying because this has more impact. But and as I said, like of course, I get to meet such amazing families, like to really connect with them and understand their mission and really understand women's health overall. You know, like, why are we doing what we're doing? All of us. So, um, thank you so much, um, for joining me today. Say my name, let's see if you've got it okay, I'm so bad at pronouncing new names.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, swarnima. Oh my god she got it this must be, but I still couldn't pronounce the will you do the honor saying your full name my name is Swandima Bhattacharya.

Speaker 1:

It's a very Swandima is a difficult one yeah. Bhattacharya is a very common Bengali.

Speaker 2:

It's not we are not all Chatterjee's. Okay, I never heard about this last name. I told you before this is so funny.

Speaker 1:

This is so funny. But yeah, no, but thanks. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Speaker 2:

I think, along with just learning so much, I'm also learning Indian surnames.

Speaker 1:

And there are lots of Bengali surnames. There must be like hundreds Actually. I didn't know that. Oh my God. Yeah, no, We'll have that conversation later off air Great.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much.